FDA approved powders - Overkill?

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Dano
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FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Dano » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:34 pm

I have a customer with a funnel tube for filling sausage that is showing wear. He wants it re coated.

The material is aluminum and he doesn't like the idea of aluminum oxide transferring to his sausage on its way through the tube.

I've informed him that there are FDA approved powders. Is there really going to be dire consequences if he blasts the tube, I re-blast it (for my own assurance) and coat it in a clear?

This is not a commercial operation, strictly personal use.

Thanks guys,,

Dano
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Wiseguyz
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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Wiseguyz » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:17 pm

There is nothing worse than aluminum oxide transferring to your sausage on its way through the tube. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The FDA approved powders have been approved for use on food-prep equipment. All other powders may be toxic, right? I doubt it, but we paid the gub-mint good money to tell us that we can use 2 or 3 different powders that some congressman's buddy manufacturs, and none of the others will do. I challenge anyone to tell me what the hell is different about the "approved" ones. There are no VOCs in any of them that I'm aware of. But I digress. I do have a pound or so of FDA Black if you decide to go that route. It does shoot really nice and I shot a very similar piece of equipment. Rough casting that I thought would outgass like crazy, and it came out smooth as glass. Wish I could say the same for the SD Wet Black. :mrgreen:

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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by tr4dude » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:45 pm

i don't see a problem with regular powder, I would eat off something that I coated, after it is cured it is pretty much inert. Just explain to him of the care that you give it after blasting such a your cleaning process that you go through and the extra attention that you will give his funnel :D that will leave zero AO on it. If you can polish it and then clearcoat that would be another way to go too and would look good if he would like that type of finish. As far as VOC's their are voc's let off while curing according to the AQMD and to the tune of requiring California shops to retrofit their ovens with a detector to the tune of 10 to 15k in and upcoming law that is to take effect. I will never have a shop here :evil:
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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Harleydad » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:57 pm

Wiseguyz wrote:There is nothing worse than aluminum oxide transferring to your sausage on its way through the tube. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The FDA approved powders have been approved for use on food-prep equipment. All other powders may be toxic, right? I doubt it, but we paid the gub-mint good money to tell us that we can use 2 or 3 different powders that some congressman's buddy manufacturs, and none of the others will do. I challenge anyone to tell me what the hell is different about the "approved" ones. There are no VOCs in any of them that I'm aware of. But I digress. I do have a pound or so of FDA Black if you decide to go that route. It does shoot really nice and I shot a very similar piece of equipment. Rough casting that I thought would outgass like crazy, and it came out smooth as glass. Wish I could say the same for the SD Wet Black. :mrgreen:
This would be a good one for Benwish to chime in on. Hopefully he'll catch it.
All I really know is that has to with the raw materials that the powder is manufactured with. They should be compliant with a FDA guideline. This is it if you want to search it.

21 CFR 175.300
(Food and Drug Administration)

From the Tiger Brochure:
FDA Compliant:Food and Drug compliant powder coatings meet the strict and very limited raw material selection criteria the FDA had approved and are suitable for all types of application around food preperation and food storage areas (like shelving or lighting).
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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Benwish » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:33 pm

I saw it Jeff :-)

FDA approved powders are just powder with certain certified raw materials. They are produced the same way as any other powder.
There are only very few raw materials certified to be called <FDA approved>
This limits the manufacture to only a few options (Colors: Black, White Grey) and chemical systems (they are all 100% epoxies). As a manufacture you can only buy from a handful of suppliers and you have to prove that during production nothing goes wrong/can go wrong.
The intention of few raw materials is to limit the amount of chemical interactions. You can pretty much exactly calculate how much resin and cross linker is needed to get to a 100% cross linking. Only few pigments (Carbon and TiO2) are used because they will not leach out if they are not 100% correct extruded (primary cristal structure).
There are no "chemical gadgets" added, just a few basic ones to make it work.
Once you manufactured everything you have to be tested with the NSF and once you receive this letter, you can call your powder: FDA approved.
All the above, has of course a price. Purchasing, QC and production have to be able to achieve the restrictions an that adds another layer of labor to the game.

The chemical system for all FDA powders i know are epoxy based:
Epoxies are functional not decorative. They are used primarily for protection because of their toughness, corrosion resistance, flexibility and adhesion. Their only downfall: They are subject to UV radiation, hence, bad durability outdoors (sun). Once the network of cross linked chains is destroyed, they will chalk and fall apart, losing its protection.
Under this deffinition, they are designed to work under food processing envirnment.

Above is the official side of the story.
My personal opinion: BS!
As said before, this is just a money making way to get people to buy stuff they don't need.
It is in every manufactures interest to calculate the exact amount of ingredients in order to not waste raw materials. If you overdose on epoxy or have unused catalyst you just throw money away. Why would you use cheap pigments in the first place? You don't need fancy chemicals to coat a sausage machine.
There is no way enough molecules will lose adhesion and float into the sausage, even if the manufacture screwed up the production. Cure the powder according to the TD and you are good to go.
The amount of possible bad chemicals leaving the coating layer is so small, i would be more concerned about the salt and spices in the sausage (keyword: Nitrosamines).

If your customer wants 100.00% assurance that for the 2-3 seconds the meat is in contact with the paint nothing will happen, fine, go for FDA. Just ask him the question if his plastic bags where he stores the sausage for weeks/month is also FDA approved...

Me personally, i would not go the extra effort with FDA powders. A white epoxy, properly cured is at a 99.99% safty level and that's fine with me.

B
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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Harleydad » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:56 pm

You da Man ;)
Thanks B

Any chance you might wanna tackle the SD Wet Black and clear issue.
Possibly an explanation of the differences between a SD Wet Black/ a Wet Black and a regular gloss black.:mrgreen:
http://powder365.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Cindy » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:57 pm

I love you B :D
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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Wiseguyz » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:44 pm

Isn't that exactly what I said? Only you told us how to build the clock. I just said what time it was. :lol:

Thanks, man.

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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by Dano » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:10 pm

You guys are more than terrific!


Thanks to all of you.
Glass Clear or epoxy white, depending on the customers' mood.

Dano
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Re: FDA approved powders - Overkill?

Post by ZX10 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:06 am

Dano wrote:You guys are more than terrific!


Thanks to all of you.
Glass Clear or epoxy white, depending on the customers' mood.

Dano
Dano what happened with this project??
I have customer wanting his meat slicer done...

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